17 replies to this topic

[Horizons]

I've been told by some legal "wizard" on another site that by compiling playlists, we are infringing on Disney's intellectual property. Thus, I think it's time we closed up shop and went home.

[thx99]

Granted, I'm not an attorney but the whole intellectual property argument doesn't hold water.

First, quite a number of the loops feature music that Disney doesn't even own the rights to (i.e., film music re-recordings from Silva Screen, tracks from non-Disney soundtracks, etc.). I'm assuming that Disney has properly licensed these tracks from the respective labels for use in these loops, and as such, they are using other company's IP, not creating their own. And I doubt that how the tracks are edited together constitutes IP.

Second, these tracks are being blasted through loudspeakers throughout the park and heard by thousands of people a day, many of whom may recognize the music. We're not talking about a technology or device being developed behind closed doors, and not yet meant for public consumption.

Third, I don't think we (as playlist compilers) are claiming any legal claims to playlists we post. We're simply saying that we would rather not have others claim authorship and/or profit off of the posted information. It's natural to be territorial about our hard work, but there certainly is a limit to how far we can go with protecting it, once it's posted.

So I don't see how posting a playlist to a music loop that arguably is being heard in the public domain and consists of material that Disney doesn't even own is somehow infringing on their legal rights. Granted, if I recorded the loop AND then played it at my place of business or in some other public space, I could see a potential problem there not only from Disney but from the music owners as well.

Just my layman's $0.02...

[Jay]

Horizons, on 06 November 2011 - 05:07 PM, said:

I've been told by some legal "wizard" on another site that by compiling playlists, we are infringing on Disney's intellectual property.

A site that mainly serves to distribute audio and video works that are copyrighted commercial products or that manage to infringe on others' rights by containing copyrighted elements? Why is this "wanker" a member there? How rich!

thx99, on 07 November 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:

I doubt that how the tracks are edited together constitutes IP.

I don't know, man. Who else would have the musical genius to play tracks in alphabetical order? It's too bad ideas can't be copyrighted, because it probably won't be much longer before everyone from radio stations to wedding DJs catch on and start doing it too.

thx99, on 07 November 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:

these tracks are being blasted through loudspeakers throughout the park and heard by thousands of people a day, many of whom may recognize the music.

You mean to say that you don't recall signing a music non-disclosure agreement before you entered Disney's parks and resorts? The one that said you could never tell another living soul that you had heard Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville while visiting Typhoon Lagoon? Gasp!

I seriously can't believe that Horizons is letting this "wanker" get to him again.

[eyore]

Jay, on 07 November 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

I seriously can't believe that Horizons is letting this "wanker" get to him again.

I wonder if that w word has the same meaning as here. Good description if it does.
Bear in mine the same person has a contrary view to just about everything there.
"he only does it to annoy because he knows it teases" is my opinion. Sounds learned unless you know otherwise
One point that was raised is that official communications and emails do seem now to carry a rider to the effect that the content is for private and personal use only and expressly forbids it being published or distributed to anyone thus:

NOTICE
The data in this document incorporates proprietary rights of WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING. It shall not be duplicated in whole or in part, nor disclosed to others without the written consent of WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING.

Oh bugger, that includes the notice doesn't it!

Can't help it if our conclusions agree with it. We'd never take their word for it anyway - too many errors in them.

[Jay]

eyore, on 07 November 2011 - 01:11 PM, said:

One point that was raised is that official communications and emails do seem now to carry a rider to the effect that the content is for private and personal use only and expressly forbids it being published or distributed to anyone thus:

And so does an e-mail from my wife telling me that she's going to the mall to buy a new pair of shoes after work:

Quote

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by email and delete the message and any file attachments from your computer. Thank you.

This is standard mumbo-jumbo being added to most corporate communications these days. It's being tacked on automatically and without regard as to whether something actually incorporates proprietary information.

eyore, on 07 November 2011 - 01:11 PM, said:

We'd never take their word for it anyway - too many errors in them.

Other than a handout at the Animal Kingdom Lodge, I have never been so lucky as to receive playlists from Disney. But, yeah, I wouldn't trust them to be altogether accurate if I did. Ten years and three loop changes later, by the way, they're still handing out that same sheet of paper at the Animal Kingdom Lodge. That should tell you something right there!

[thx99]

eyore, on 07 November 2011 - 01:11 PM, said:

One point that was raised is that official communications and emails do seem now to carry a rider to the effect that the content is for private and personal use only and expressly forbids it being published or distributed to anyone thus:

NOTICE
The data in this document incorporates proprietary rights of WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING. It shall not be duplicated in whole or in part, nor disclosed to others without the written consent of WALT DISNEY IMAGINEERING.

Funny that none of the Guest Relations Listings scanned/posted here have that warning, though admittedly most are over a decade old (or more).

[Jay]

thx99, on 07 November 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

Funny that none of the Guest Relations Listings scanned/posted here have that warning, though admittedly most are over a decade old (or more).

I didn't start seeing any of that crap in my wife's or friend's e-mails until just a few years ago either. It's now being added to everything. That's because someone decided it was a good idea to have it there for the few communications where it might actually matter. I don't think my knowing that my wife plans to go shopping after work is going to negatively affect her organization or that they ever intend to copyright a list of her shoe selections.

Disney would have a hard time proving in a court of law that their profits are down because I told people that I heard Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville while at Typhoon Lagoon. To make such a claim would be ridiculous! They certainly can't blast a popular song out of a loudspeaker to a large crowd of people and expect to keep it a secret!

I can't believe we're wasting our time on this "wanker's" (yes, it means the same thing here) idiotic claims.

[eyore]

Jay, on 07 November 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

This is standard mumbo-jumbo being added to most corporate communications these days. It's being tacked on automatically and without regard as to whether something actually incorporates proprietary information.

I'm sure you are right. Something similar appeared on an email I sent them asking if they had any transportation from the airport that is wheelchair accessible (they don't).
My wife asked me how I got on so I had to tell her I wasn't allowed to pass the information on to her

Jay, on 07 November 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Other than a handout at the Animal Kingdom Lodge, I have never been so lucky as to receive playlists from Disney. But, yeah, I wouldn't trust them to be altogether accurate if I did. Ten years and three loop changes later, by the way, they're still handing out that same sheet of paper at the Animal Kingdom Lodge. That should tell you something right there!

Yeah, We've had an out of date list or two as well (which did sort of make a nonsense out of things as we asked because we knew it had changed some months before - which we told them in the email and that we wanted to know the current list - and they sent the old one which we already knew). Duh!

[Jay]

eyore, on 07 November 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

My wife asked me how I got on so I had to tell her I wasn't allowed to pass the information on to her

LOL!

Check it out! Now here is some serious "infringement" for you!

List of Performances at Woodstock Festival

God only knows what kind of "reverse engineering" must have gone on during Woodstock in order to obtain this kind of "proprietary information!" I hope drugs and nakedness were weren't involved!

How is it, pray tell, that Wikipedia is able to so blatantly get away with freely disseminating "trade secrets" like this?!

It boggles the mind, folks!

[Jay]

Holy "copyright infringement," Batman! Apparently this sort of "illicit activity" is more rampant than I thought!

Bruce Springsteen | setlist.fm

What hath Al Gore wrought by inventing the internet?! Let us pray that Almighty Thor doesn't decide to hurl a giant asteroid our way some day soon!

[eyore]

Jay, on 07 November 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

Holy "copyright infringement," Batman! Apparently this sort of "illicit activity" is more rampant than I thought!

Bruce Springsteen | setlist.fm

What hath Al Gore wrought by inventing the internet?! Let us pray that Almighty Thor doesn't decide to hurl a giant asteroid our way some day soon!

And I really must stop encouraging him. I can't resist a challenge for the twaddle he spouts.
As I said, I think he does it just to solicit a response from idiots like me. Once the replies stop he loses interest.
Just found a magazine that actually lists programs that are on TV for the next week and gives cast lists for the movies that are being shown .
It's rife!!!!!
Must make sure I don't let anyone see my grocery list. All those names are trademarked!

[Horizons]

Jay, on 07 November 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

I seriously can't believe that Horizons is letting this "wanker" get to him again.

His idiotic statements are not getting to me. Rather, it's the direction of the thread itself, which is all about starting a wiki playlist for theme park audio. I made my position clear, but if that idea goes anywhere, any bets as to how much information from this site ends up being copied?

[eyore]

I think I've made my views clear on this as well.
I've just added another reply pointing out what (I think) is intended for this site regarding the playlists.
The main argument seems to be that this site is great but people don't like wading through the blogs to find the entry for the list they are seeking (which is understandable as I have difficulties finding my stuff sometimes).
If we could get our stuff into the playlist section, the reason for a Wiki would go away.
I still have no idea if that's permitted and, if it is, how to do it or even if it's going to happen.
Maybe a sticky explaining it to visitors would help?

[Horizons]

Good news to those who spend a lot of personal time working on playlists. Our friends at M O U S E B I T S appear to think they can do a better job putting together playlists and plan on taking matters into their own hands. Of course, taking matters into their owns hands most likely means stealing all of the information from here. But, in any event, I'll let them come up with all future information since, as this post suggests, those that have done this in the past are "slow" and our work has been too "thin." Let's wish them luck shall we?

Quote

I will say this about Magicmusic: I stopped visiting there because the community seemed so slow and the playlists were so thin on the ground. If this is something they're still working on, then great for them, but this community is so much more active that I think we would be better off taking matters into our own hands.

[thx99]

Horizons, on 10 November 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

Good news to those who spend a lot of personal time working on playlists. Our friends at M O U S E B I T S appear to think they can do a better job putting together playlists and plan on taking matters into their own hands. Of course, taking matters into their owns hands most likely means stealing all of the information from here. But, in any event, I'll let them come up with all future information since, as this post suggests, those that have done this in the past are "slow" and our work has been too "thin." Let's wish them luck shall we?

Quote

I will say this about Magicmusic: I stopped visiting there because the community seemed so slow and the playlists were so thin on the ground. If this is something they're still working on, then great for them, but this community is so much more active that I think we would be better off taking matters into our own hands.

What does "thin on the ground" even mean? Not enough detail? I beg to differ, except to the extent that I have not included times for the various edit points of the featured tracks. IMO, that's not the purpose of a playlist. Accurately identifying the music and the respective source CD/LP/etc. are the primary functions of the playlist.

As for the "so slow" comment, hell, I'd love to be able to pump them out one after another, but (1) it's a time-consuming endeavor, (2) I just don't have the time, (3) I rely on the kindness of others willing to share their reference recordings, and (4) some tracks have eluded identification as to their source, even with the help of able-bodied volunteers (including the actual composer in one case). I'm preaching to the choir here, I know.

More power to them...

[Jay]

Awesome! I am so glad that I will no longer need to spend eleven hours at Pop Century or six hours at the Polynesian just to get a reference recording! Or have to wade through every single Hawai'ian album in existence in order to identify 18 tracks! Or waste ten plus years finalizing a single Animal Kingdom Lodge playlist! Oh, happy happy joy joy!

Do me a favor, guys! Someone please let me know when these "wizards" have managed to complete their first original playlist (one that hasn't been stolen from here or the derelict Loops site). I am still waiting for little Ricky Brigante's first contribution. But I am fully confident that something will come of this... for the times they are a-changin'!

Until then, folks, you can find me at World of Beer!

Peace out!

[eyore]

Jay, on 10 November 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Awesome! I am so glad that I will no longer need to spend eleven hours at Pop Century or six hours at the Polynesian just to get a reference recording! Or have to wade through every single Hawai'ian album in existence in order to identify 18 tracks! Or waste ten plus years finalizing a single Animal Kingdom Lodge playlist! Oh, happy happy joy joy!

Do me a favor, guys! Someone please let me know when these "wizards" have managed to complete their first original playlist (one that hasn't been stolen from here or the derelict Loops site). I am still waiting for little Ricky Brigante's first contribution. But I am fully confident that something will come of this... for the times they are a-changin'!

Until then, folks, you can find me at World of Beer!

Peace out!

I think that some people are just too bone idle to look for things. They go to the playlists section and don't find what they want so presume that's all there is (that's what I read from the comments anyway).
How anyone could possibly say they are thin on the ground if they actually read the blog entries is beyond me.
Maybe we should just email them all a personal copy of them.
Have an extra beer on me!

[needmagic]

Totally agree - can't wait to see new playlists appear! As the saying goes 'knock yourself out!'