39 replies to this topic

[exetor999]

Hello, Everyone. Someone on this board had told me that the CBJ records had come out in both mono and stereo, but I have had many other people inform me that the records were only released in mono. I have two of the old original records myself, and both are mono. If someone can clear up this mystery, or tell me how I can obtain a stereo copy of this attraction, I would be a very happy camper. I personally loved this ride, and the music, but there are many people who hate it, and I don't understand this at all.

Thanx

[eyore]

The trout was correct that there is a stereo version. The mono version had the number 3994 and the stereo version ST-3994.
Compare these covers:
http://www.discogs.c...release/2580438
(click on the cover for a larger view and note the number is ST-3994  that stands for Stereo and this one is the stereo version)
http://bjbear71.com/Disney/DR4.html
(just numbered 3994 - this is the mono version)
Hope this settles it once and for all.
There is no doubt that it was released in both mono and stereo - the ST preface was used to indicate stereo - you had to play it with a finer stylus than the mono version so it needed to be indicated on the cover.

[exetor999]

Hey, THANX, Eyore. I am gratefull for that important info, also a link to a site where I can actually buy the album. Hope to get the record in the next week. There was a fellow on another site, uses the handle of "grinning Ghost", sez he knows everything about disney, so I'm glad that this will prove him wrong!

[eyore]

This one does come up every so often so I had looked out of curiosity and once you see that "ST" before the number you know it's true.
Now, I don't have the record so whether the actual CBJ is in true stereo I can't say - it depends on the original master. If it was originally recorded using one microphone then  there are a number of ways they could have made it "stereo". They could just duplicate the track over two channels or they could modify the mono track so give the appearance of two microphones to get a different sound from each channel.
All that besides, it officially a stereo release and that's what counts.
Bit like recording a park loop from a single speaker (mono) with a stereo recorder. Would that count as stereo or not
That being said, most vinyl in 1972 was stereo  anyway.
If you get it, would you mind telling us if the two channels differ and it IS genuine stereo please?
I'd like to know why people keep insisting it's a Loch Ness Monster/Bigfoot.

[disneyphenom]

I find it interesting that, if an actual Stereo version existed, they didn't use it for the 50th anniversary CD set.

[eyore]

I'm going to throw a cat in amongst the pigeons here.
Disney decided to ignore convention and use the ST prefix for it's storyteller series (all mono).
I can only assume that the record was issued as a theme park LP with the number 3994. It was then entered into the storyteller series and had the ST prefix added.
http://en.wikipedia....neyland_Records
Disney used an unusual "Ster" on their albums to indicate stereo.
The rest of the world used ST so it looks like this is the reason for the famed stereo version (which doesn't exist, I'm afraid).
All because Disney decided to do their own thing and confuse everyone.
It's official, the stereo version only exists as an assumption because of the storyteller series. Had me (and The Trout) fooled too!

[Grinning Ghost]

eyore, on 24 January 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

The trout was correct that there is a stereo version. The mono version had the number 3994 and the stereo version ST-3994.
Compare these covers:
http://www.discogs.c...release/2580438
(click on the cover for a larger view and note the number is ST-3994  that stands for Stereo and this one is the stereo version)
http://bjbear71.com/Disney/DR4.html
(just numbered 3994 - this is the mono version)
Hope this settles it once and for all.
There is no doubt that it was released in both mono and stereo - the ST preface was used to indicate stereo - you had to play it with a finer stylus than the mono version so it needed to be indicated on the cover.

exetor999, on 25 January 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Hey, THANX, Eyore. I am gratefull for that important info, also a link to a site where I can actually buy the album. Hope to get the record in the next week. There was a fellow on another site, uses the handle of "grinning Ghost", sez he knows everything about disney, so I'm glad that this will prove him wrong!

Sorry, but that is incorrect, as Eyore has found. The ST prefix stands for "Storyteller" series, and always mono. Stereo is always "STER" on both the Disneyland label and the Buena Vista label. Later editions in the late 1970s and into the 1980s simply dropped the ST and STER prefixes, going only with the catalog number.

As I mentioned on that other site, record companies stopped issuing dual releases of albums in 1968 and 1969*, including Disney. CBJ was not issued in dual stereo and mono formats - only mono. Had it been issued in stereo, it would have been available ONLY in stereo as STER-3994 from the day it was first released until the end of record production, and would have been used for the 50th Anniversary set.  They used the only version that exists, which is mono.  On the other hand, The Hall of Presidents Lp (STER-3806) from the same year has never been issued in monaural - only stereo until the end of record production.

*One exception is disc jockey 45 rpm singles. They were often issued with only one song: stereo version on one side, and mono version on the other side in the early to mid 70s.

The discography site you pointed out confirms at the top of the page the same thing I said:

"Webmaster's Notes: With Disneyland Records, those indicated with ST before the catalog number usually indicate MONO recordings while those which start with STER before the catalog number indicate STEREO."


By the way exetor999:  I never, ever said, claimed, or implied in any way that I know "everything about disney".  Never.

[eyore]

We should all be well aware of the fact that Disney doesn't always follow what others do. Looking at the issue dates, I'm of the opinion that Disney used the prefix ST for their storyteller series before it started being used to indicate stereo by other companies (ST-1901 Daeby O'Gill was released in 1959 see Ken's site http://mountainearso...eople&Itemid=12 and the use of ST for stereo seems to have started around 1966 by Capitol records (before that they just used Stereo on the covers).
This does, at least, give the final conclusion to the argument about a stereo version.
We can all learn with a little research and also learn the obvious is not always so.

[exetor999]

So.... I just paid big bucks for a 'storyteller' version of the CBJ?

Bummer

[eyore]

Afraid so. There are many of these available on various sites (from $5 upwards and all with the prefix ST - and also described as stereo, by the way so best to shop around - they are not rare).
At least the ST versions are earlier than the ones with just the number.
http://www.etsy.com/...-disney-country
Did your seller describe it as stereo or mono? If stereo you can return it as it isn't as described.
Most have a returns policy at the least.

[Grinning Ghost]

exetor999, on 26 January 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

So.... I just paid big bucks for a 'storyteller' version of the CBJ?

Bummer

No.  You just bought another copy of the same album you already own two copies of.  ST or Storyteller series isn't always literally a story type of album with a narrator telling a story.  It covers pretty much any of those with the 11-page booklet.  More about the packaging format than the content.

eyore, on 26 January 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

...and the use of ST for stereo seems to have started around 1966 by Capitol records (before that they just used Stereo on the covers).

No - Capitol simply added the letter "S" to the beginning of whatever the existing monaural catalog number was since they started issuing stereo records.  As a result, some earlier mono releases that had catalog numbers which originally started with an "S" were changed to a "W"  (Oklahoma! original number:  SAO-595, monaural 1955;  in 1962, it was changed to WAO-595, and in stereo it was SWAO-595.)  Only the "S" indicated stereo.  Could be ST-, SWAO-, STCL-, SWDR- among many others.  Seemed to depend on how many discs and the type of packaging.  For mono releases, just drop the "S" (until they stopped issuing dual format releases).  "D" was for "Duophonic", or simulated stereo.

[eyore]

I'll accept that.
I am, of course, using my own collection of LPs as a reference point and, being in the UK, it looks as though there are some variations from US releases around that time .Having been around then (and only having a mono Dansette player) it was important to get the right type of album. Stereo were quite a bit more expensive too (those days a stero player was a piece of furniture several feet long and looked like a sideboard and the stylus was considerably more expensive!
Nearly all of my LPs have ST and then the number (ST-1234) and, as you say, just the number (1234) for the mono version for most labels. The occasional one has Stereo followed by the number (Stero 1234) - (I have several hundred vinyl LPs - mostly from the 60's and 70's - so enough to get the trend for the UK).
Another case of each company doing their own thing rather than having a set standard. Stereo was often printed on the cover somewhere as well. The ST (rather than S) for Capitol I got from a Wiki entry which are always accurate aren't they
It shows just how much personal research is required with things like this. Looking at copies of this album for sale on the Internet, around 90% of them describe them as stereo (for the ST numbers) and mono for the ones with just the number! Some are even selling them with a rip to a CD included (also described as stereo).
Probably a good subject to have brought up considering the general confusion amongst us less informed buyers/collectors especially over this particular album which seems to have many threads on may forums. A holy Grail in some cases!
I think that, between us, we've made a good addition to the subject and, hopefully, settled the matter once and for all and that it will help others asking the same question.

[The Trout]

If you're gonna buy Disney vinyl on a regular basis, you NEED this book:



The Golden Age of Walt Disney Records 1933-1988

It's an index of every Disney recording ever released on vinyl, with catalog numbers, descriptions, and illustrations.  It looks like I should have read more closely earlier, though: while "ST-" previously refered to stereo records, Disney later modified it to denote records released in its "Story Teller" series, and changed their stereo prefix to STER.  It's a bit confusing for a collectors that way.  This change occured in 1971.  Which is to say, Disney vinyl prior to the 70s with "ST-Number" are stereo, but starting in the 70s, it was "STER-Number" instead.

I should've checked the book when posting earlier, but clearly didn't.  Maybe I'd just woken up.  In any event, ST-3994 is the ONLY version of the Country Bear Jamboree on vinyl, and yeah, I just spun it myself and it's mono on both sides.  There may be multiple pressings that look a little different, but they're just reissues of the same mono master.  Original pressings had a purple label, later ones had the yellow label with the rainbow.

When Randy remastered the album for Wonderland CD and iTunes, he went restored the original album master, so the CD and iTunes is *also* mono on both sides.  I'm actually glad he did that: I'm all about preserving the past, and it'd be a shame if that mono mix disappeared forever.  In 2005, for A Musical History of Disneyland, Randy went further back to the ride's original multi-track tapes and remixed the attraction into stereo.  That set also includes a Mile Long Bar track (Bearless Love), but it's still in mono.  Those tracks simply aren't available anywhere in stereo, and won't be, unless Randy (or someone else at WDR) does a new mix in the future, which probably isn't very likely.

Again, sorry for the earlier confusion.  I'm gonna blame Disney circa 1971 for being a jerk and changing their prefixes.

[eyore]

Thank you. Just bought a (second hand) copy.

[disneyphenom]

The Trout, on 28 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

In 2005, for A Musical History of Disneyland, Randy went further back to the ride's original multi-track tapes and remixed the attraction into stereo.

Just double-checked the Musical History of Disneyland tracks, and while the later shows are in stereo, the original Jamboree is still in mono.

[The Trout]

D'oh, you're right.  Strange, I could've SWORE it was stereo the last time I heard it.  Guess that'll teach me to trust my memory.  Thus, for the record, the original show has never been released in stereo.

Also, for the record, I'm a moron.

[disneyphenom]

Nope, you're not a moron.  When you mentioned that the Musical History track, I figured I had overlooked it myself -- having a few dozen versions of the Jamboree on my computer from various sources.

Looks like that collection just reissued the album tracks for both Jamboree and America Sings.  :-(

[eyore]

As I remarked, shows just how much research is needed even for things that, at first glance, seem obvious including things we are familiar with.
Still, makes life interesting doesn't it?
Takes something like this to highlight things.
I suppose it means we take nothing for granted any more.

[The Trout]

Haha, yeah, and honestly, if you wanna REALLY research the Country Bear Jamboree, then you'll discover the variations: the LP and CD versions of the show have always had the 1971 version, minus Henry's shilling for Pepsi and Frito-Lay.  But certain tracks were later rerecorded by different vocalists!  So if you're a real completeist, you've gotta go digging on the internet for bootlegs.

[exetor999]

Ya mean that there are somewhere out in the world, some sort of commercials that Henry did in the show? And, where would I begin to look for any of that extra stuff? I've looked all over the internet, but couldn't find anything. That was why I had to buy that ST CBJ record. And, GG, I never had that version of the show, my 2 records are the mono ones.